Saturn Return Can Bite Me

Astrology of Harlan Ellison

nobody@vox.com(fullmoon) — Mon, 28 Sep 2009 14:58:07 -0700

"The one thing I know about love for sure is that it's the only game in town and that you must keep going back to bat again and again. I have no respect for anyone who says they've given up, or that they're not looking or that they're tired. That is to abrogate one's responsibility as a human being." -from A Curmudgeon's Garden of Love

So, kind of in preparation for Elsa's next class, I was looking at my analysis from the previous one, which pretty much reiterates that I am a total bitch and a half when it comes to relationships and I suspect it would take an act of God to get me involved again. I can't help but think that if I was a professional and saw my chart, I'd tell me something like, "Look, you're gonna be miserable without a relationship, but you're also gonna have tons of issues within one, plus making the dude miserable. Considering that you can't win either way, I'd say to do lifelong singledom because at least this way you're not torturing someone else too."

Since I think this way, you can imagine how I find the above quote to be irritating as fuckall.

Now, I happen to own a much-treasured copy of A Curmudgeon's Garden of Love (if you can dig it up in a used bookstore, I HIGHLY recommend it. Any of the Curmudgeon books, for that matter), and it features an interview with Harlan Ellison, who got married four times before finally sticking with wife #5. Now, I don't have my copy in front of me and I can't find the direct quote I'm thinking of online, but he says something along the lines of, "If I, of all people, can finally find lasting love, it could happen to anybody." Well, maybe that's the case. I hear he's...interesting...to deal with in real life. But the interview itself is pretty entertaining to read, what with his worst date ever, how he can't go into details about losing his virginity but it was like a docking maneuver in 2001, etc. And if you read the link above, there's another quote about WHY he's had so many women split on him. But presumably Susan doesn't find him irritating. Go figure.

So I figured I'd check the guy's chart to see how much of a hard nut he is to crack. And he's got the usual suspects of difficulty in there: Mars Saturn square, Moon Saturn square, and Venus Saturn sextile. Venus Uranus loose-ish conjunction in seventh for all those sudden relationships squaring Pluto, and the Moon trines Pluto. UH-OH TEH DRAMA KABOOMBAH comes to mind seeing that. And oh, look, sun conjunct Chiron. So, yeah, me and Harlan Ellison are real goddamned lulus in relationship. That's...fun to know.

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Do not date Gerard Butler

nobody@vox.com(fullmoon) — Wed, 26 Aug 2009 14:50:19 -0700

He's got Venus opposite Saturn, Mars square Saturn, Venus square Mars, and Saturn in the seventh. Yikes.

Seriously...that is gonna be a hard nut to crack. I really hope he does therapy. He certainly comes off as pleasant, but if you tick him off, watch out, and he's going to be clenched so hard that his ass could make diamonds when it comes to love and softness.

Poor bastard. That's just an ugly T-square there.

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Karl Lagerfeld

nobody@vox.com(fullmoon) — Wed, 26 Aug 2009 13:51:26 -0700

I just finished reading The Importance of Being Famous and there's a very...telling...interview with Karl Lagerfeld in it:

"Karl has all the qualities of a virgin. He has great discipline. He does not need people around to be happy--he's very much into his dreams, his fantasies, and his books." -Gilles Dufour
"I was born to be alone." Lagerfeld says a fortune-teller first told him so when he was only eighteen, but he knew it already...He wouldn't need anybody else, the fortune-teller prophesied. "'There are things you can have and things you cannot have. One cannot have everything, and nobody can adjust to that as well as you.' She told me, 'You can never have a normal family life, so whatever the standard image is of happiness, family, friendship, bonheur [happiness], for you it doesn't work. Stay alone--watch the world--you can get everything if you are ready not to conform. Stay away from everything that is normal life.' Strange, eh?"

So.....what do you think he is astrologically that cites these points?

1: he's a Virgo. Here's his chart. So yes, he's got "all the qualities of a virgin." Virgo Sun conjunct Neptune would account for his dreaminess and fantasy world. And the Pisces moon comes out in the the point in the interview when he's crying about the death of his best friend, who seems to have been his equivalent of a "soul mate" and family even though they weren't romantically involved. I wonder about his codependency level a little since the Virgo/Pisces combo is prone to some kind of martyr/service thing. I suspect he's neither a Virgo or Pisces rising or he'd be more codependent, though. Apparently he wasn't compelled to get sexual or partner off for life, but it sounds like the best friend was his partner in life, more or less, even if it wasn't that sort of partnership.

I really wish I knew this guy's rising sign, not that you're ever likely to figure that out. (Apparently he tries to hide his birth date, but hah, there's evidence of that one.)

2. The fortune teller thing is VERY interesting to me. I suspected heavy Uranus influence, like he'd be an Aquarius rising or have Uranus rising (not that I can tell this). So all I can go on is the Uranian aspects in his chart, which are:

Sun trine Uranus orb -0°37'
Uranus trine Neptune orb +3°02'
Saturn semi-sextile Uranus orb +1°01'
Jupiter square Uranus orb -7°03'

I suspect the sun trining Uranus and the Jupiter/Uranus combination are what lead to his super-independence and being unable to settle for a traditional "family life."

In the same book, there's an interview at the end with Margot Fonteyn, and it goes on about how she was utterly self-sacrificing to her handicapped husband, how she didn't have an identity in her own head until she married him, and oh, how happy she was to do that sacrifice!

Naturally I was all, "Virgo," but...she's got NO Virgo whatsoever. What the heck? What accounts for this attitude?

I suspect I'd have to pin it on having Saturn on the descendant, and Sun, Moon, Mars, and Venus all tied to it. Saturn in the seventh is "hard knocks in love" anyway, but can manifest in having an ill partner. She felt bound in there, like "this is how love is supposed to go," and Saturn in Leo is kind of "hard on the family."

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Hi-lo transits

nobody@vox.com(fullmoon) — Wed, 19 Aug 2009 08:46:25 -0700

Good and bad ways to deal with your Mars issues.

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Mars and Saturn have a conversation

nobody@vox.com(fullmoon) — Fri, 07 Aug 2009 10:13:50 -0700

This is funny.

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More Ryan, Farrah, and Mars Saturn

nobody@vox.com(fullmoon) — Thu, 06 Aug 2009 11:51:26 -0700

A very good analysis.

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Astrological prick indicators

nobody@vox.com(fullmoon) — Tue, 04 Aug 2009 09:30:37 -0700

Topic of discussion: Ryan "I Just Trolled On My Kid At My Girlfriend's Funeral" O'Neal.

So, okay, I whip up his chart and go looking for astrological prick indicators (A.P.I.) and voila – the classic afflicted Mars. Ladies and male gays, take note. The “afflicted” Mars is the classic astro-omen of trouble when you are looking at men. Not all men with a trickily aspected Mars are difficult pricks with drugs or violence issues but plenty are. PLEASE don’t e-mail me to defend your precious snookums who has never laid a hand on you excepting for tantric sex at which he excels and he always puts the rubbish out sans complaint. I am just saying that in SOME cases, a man with Mars square his Saturn, Uranus, Pluto or Neptune can be a piece of work.

I would concur with this one. Mars issue guys...well, be careful. Find a guy who's using that energy constructively, rather than taking it out on other people.

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Voice of Mars

nobody@vox.com(fullmoon) — Tue, 31 Mar 2009 09:00:56 -0700

This sounds like the guy has Mars Saturn or Mars Pluto to me... (Upon attempting to figure out a chart since he mentions his birthday, looks like he has Mars semisextile both planets.)

"There was a time in my undergraduate studies when I decided to reject everything considered masculine. I had just started learning about feminist philosophies and the associated feminine ideals: pacifism rather than violence, gentleness rather than strength, and love and the erotic rather than pain and competition. My readings convinced me that maleness was something to diminish rather than champion. The patriarchal structure of societies seemed to be the root cause of oppression and warfare. Matriarchal societies, as illustrated in my books, were about cooperation, farming, and a communal society of ideals. Matriarchal religions, worshiping a feminine goddess or the sacred feminine, were more about love and the erotic, and less about hellfire and beating the loving snot out of heathens.
Additionally, I had a thing for scarily smart women (still do) and a lot of them were getting into that avenue of philospophy.
I learned a lot about gender and women during that period of my life, but I remember feeling disquieted, like I was hungry and wasn't feeding. Riding wildly through D.C. on my motorcycle provided some sustinence, but it wasn't quite my thing. A ticket for reckless riding stopped that sort of nonsense quickly.
One evening, while drunk, I received a text from a friend that set me off. I don't even remember what the text was about, but I do remember pounding on my dorm door until it busted off the hinges and bounced off the opposing wall. My hands hurt. The door was trashed. People were coming out of their rooms to find out what the hell was going on. And, I felt good. Real good.
I've always been a violent sort. My mother used to joke that our phone number was on the principal's speed dial. Weekly meetings with school staff about my fighting became routine for both my mother and I. The kids in the school yard had a deal - they'd get to make my life miserable and in return, I'd get to beat the snot out of them.
My mother tried her best to channel this aggression into sports. I played ice hockey, but preferred bashing people into the walls instead of playing with the puck. In middle school and high school, I wrestled. I also tried football, but found that my size hadn't caught up to my aggressive tendencies. The bigger boys made short work of my knee and that was the end of my sporting career.
I needed an outlet, otherwise I was just going to take Hellspawn, put him in the car, and drive off without telling anyone where we went. Getting into tussles at parties helped a bit, but it ruined my clothes and there was always the risk of hurting someone badly and being on the hook financially. While flipping through the net some time in the early morning, while taking a break from watching Hellspawn sleep and doing homework, I stumbled on some pictures provided by the Society for Creative Anachronism. The pictures showed folks in full metal regalia pounding on each other with sticks.
I looked at the pictures, and corresponding movies, for hours. I wanted to do that. I needed to do that.
At 26, I've come to terms with my violent tendencies. But, I've tempered them, and redirected myself to the appropriate activities. That's ultimately the crux of being a man - knowing the strength and dangeousness of the masculine and using them wisely. A real man doesn't beat his wife and kids. He beats other people with sticks within a structured environment. A real man embraces his competative nature, but cautions it with humility and a bit of chilvarly thrown in."

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"The urge to do it never goes away."

nobody@vox.com(fullmoon) — Thu, 19 Mar 2009 14:18:10 -0700

So I'm listening to NPR about "can an abuser be reformed?" So far the opinion of the experts is, "Probably not. Most of them don't want to, and if you send them to a court program, that just means they stop abusing this one and go on to abuse the next girl."

Then about midway through, a guy named Tom who is an abuser calls in. Yes, he grew up in an abusive family. This guy wanted to stop pushing/shoving/nearly punching/choking his wife, he's ashamed of having done it. he's voluntarily gone to residential programs and anger management to stop doing it. He says it makes him feel powerless. He hasn't done it for five years.

And even he says that the urge to hit never goes away.

When they asked him if he'd advise someone else's wife to leave, he said he'd tell his wife to leave if he wasn't getting help. He calls it "next to impossible to overcome it." And also, "It's something I have to deal with for the rest of my life, so I have to believe that there is a way to overcome this."

Another interesting point: he says he was not a violent person and didn't get into fights before he was married, and had no idea he could be that way.

In related news, the comments on this article on whether or not it's acceptable for a woman to hit a guy (answer: no) are interesting, especially given the number of women who admit to have done it in the past and wish they hadn't.

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Mars Saturn connections

nobody@vox.com(fullmoon) — Tue, 10 Mar 2009 15:50:48 -0700

Here's a pretty good one on this.

All the houses thus involved will be under developmental tension, as Saturn stresses Mars and vice versa. If Saturn rules 5th (Virgo rising most likely) there is a developmental delay or inhibition related to giving of love - which begs you to ask the question "why?" In this case Mars most likely rules the 8th - other's self worth (also related to sexuality) - is there competition with the partner? Does the person feel somehow inferior to one's partner, which results in withholding behavior? How does that affect his/her sexual relationship?
If Saturn rules 7th and Mars 10th, how did the parental modeling (10th) affect one's relationship patterns (7th)? Who taught you that work (10th) always has to get in the way of relationship (7th)?
If Saturn rules 11th and Mars 2nd, how does your not feeling worthy or lovable inhibit you from claiming or receiving what you want?
Through awareness, the archetype can begin to shift - Saturn can change into discipline or wisdom through time - Inhibited Action or Frustrated Desire becomes Disciplined or Resourceful Action. This shift is one productive result of astrological meditation.

And another:

Mars represents the method of action: how we need to act in order to be effective in getting what we want. Since Saturn traditionally has to do with delays, blockages and frustration, the classical thought was that if the person has Mars squared (or other hard aspect) by Saturn, his action will likely end in frustration.
This led to descriptions such as frustrated action, suppressed anger, and even impotence. Some said this aspect suggested "cautious and controlled action - driving with brakes on." Others thought that Saturn's ambition and control would dominate Mars, and produce a ruthless character who is extremely controlling (Hitler's chart was given as an example.)
The problem with these descriptions was that they were static and gave no room for growth: In real life, when we have problems we deal with it - you may have to lean into it for a long time, but eventually you solve them - or you quit. Since astrology is not a pronouncement of fate but a pattern of life development (which pretty much has to do with solving problems and growing all the time), there has to be a higher level alternative to this aspect.
b) Alternate Manifestation
So we use Saturn's discipline, maturity, perseverance and wisdom and apply it (Mars) to achieve our goals. Noel Tyl called this aspect "indomitable" and "resourceful" - these describe the staying power and street smart of Saturn enhancing Mars. We could expect that with knowledge and experience, this will become more and more applicable.
This means one of my key challenges is that I may have a hard time developing a strong sense of self, as well as I may have a fear or insecurity about not being lovable - which leads to not being able to "let love in," so to speak.
That's a good awareness when I'm in relationships with people - how much of their love and appreciation am I "letting in?" By patient introspective process (Mars in Scorpio is in the 8th house - psychological healing) I have worked on these issues, and feel much better about it.
That's just one example involving two houses - when 2nd house is involved, self worth will be the key challenge. 3rd house: the mental process - perhaps depression or anxiety disorder. 4th or 10th house - parental relationship may be challenged. 5th house - self expression and giving love to others. 6th house - cooperating with others at work. 7th house - personal relationships, and so on.
The key with Saturn is that we get better as we accumulate wisdom through experience and learning. Mars' method of action (in my case, Scorpio Mars implies research, and control through knowing) will be greatly enhanced as the years go by, so long as we keep learning how to do things better.
Some examples of Mars-Saturn hard aspect: concentration camp survivor Viktor Frankl (square), Walt Disney (conjunction), Milton Erickson (conjunction), Al Gore (conjunction), astrologer Isabel Hickey (square - she wrote "Saturn most guide Mars"), Julia Roberts (square), Bruce Willis (opposition - the "indomitable" image is there in his action movie roles), Paramahansa Yogananda (opposition).
Many of them have built enduring work through patient effort. There are many athletes with this combination, so Saturn doesn't seem to affect the physical energy necessarily.

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