17 posts tagged “sun”
So I'm taking Elsa's beginner astrology class, and I figured I'd mention a few of the posts I did over there.
The point of the class is to talk about Suns and Sun house placements ONLY. (I feel like I have every limb but like, one big toe tied behind my back not to go advanced on this. We have a lot of advanced folk taking the class because Elsa is cool, but we're getting told not to go into much beyond that.) One of the points made somewhere was that where your sun is is where you are supposed to SHINE and if you don't, it's a big ol' problem.
So, here was my total whining about it:
I have a question regarding this quote about not letting your Sun shine = massive dysfunction: what about the 7th? The entire problem is that I don't have control over whether or not I get a partner and the sun gets to shine. Yeah, I could and should force myself to online date (though at this point I'd rather pine alone or shoot myself than do it, I feel sick to my stomach every time I look at the ads, they're all terrible!) because I have no other options for meeting people at this age short of lightning striking. But even if I meet someone and there's mutual liking, I can't control how long someone wants to stay with me and I don't have any power over that. All my power is gone because someone else has to hand it to me.
I hate being astrologically codependent. I hate it SO much.
See, it's totally frustrating. I have to have someone else's wind beneath my wings before I can fly? WTF? I can't make my own wind? I have to sit on the ground for years waiting for someone to come along and decide that they wanna inflate me? Grrrrr. That is just SO disempowering. It's what pisses me off about that placement, that you are NOT ALLOWED to go it alone and like it or function independently. (Says the Aries South Node.)
Someone asked me about projection issues and here's what I came up with. I'm actually fairly amazed at my insight on this. Not so much that I project onto actual people...
I am pretty much only satisfied with a partner, but on the other hand, DRAMA comes along with partners. They have problems with what I do and they tell me and I get upset and can't ever manage to "fix it" to their satisfaction, I have problems with what they do and don't tell them because I can't bear for the relationship to end, eventually they get sick of me and dump me... Partnership really isn't a cure-all or something that "fixes" me, but I think when you have personal planets on the descendant, you're going to be inclined to think that this will be the cure-all even when your rational mind knows better. I think that's my projection, that I can't be happy alone and it's better to be with a loser than to be alone, even though my rational mind learned that isn't true the hard way :P My mom has moon in 7th and I got raised this way as well.
So as far as I'm concerned, the projection thing kind of happens even without an actual person to project onto. Now, you might have to tie my Sun conjunct Chiron into it, i.e. Chiron is where you are broken and I just feel broken in general, and maybe those without it don't feel that way. But on some level, EVEN THOUGH I MENTALLY KNOW BETTER BY NOW, and learned that the hard way, my hormones/limbic brain/id/what have you is darned convinced that "get a man and it fixes everything." (Michael Lutin seems to think this if you read SunShines, which makes me wonder what the hell his node placement is. He very specifically says that your personal issues of self-hatred go away if you have some other person around to interrupt the self-hate chanting you do when alone.) And in real life practice, no it doesn't. Hell, that causes even more problems!
Anyway, the answer to the question of "is my Sun shiny" is nope, no it is not.
This is great! Okay, not the bullying, but the analysis.
Anyone who really feels their power and prowess (MARS) has no need to batter people. That right there is a statement of fact. So I would say when you meet a bully they have a Mars problem.
Next, if you have self esteem, you’ve not reason to harm another person’s self esteem so my guess is Mars in hard aspect to one the personal planets, most like the Sun. But this does not mean everyone with Mars square their Sun is a bully!
Saturn in aspect to Mars is frustrating for the individual and may also create a bully but you cannot take this for granted. As an example, the soldier has Saturn in aspect to his Mars and he hunts bullies and tyrants.
I would say a person who gets bullied has similar aspects as the person who bullies, the lesson being you must learn to stand up for yourself.
I am a person who get bullied (to an extent) and when I stand up for myself I get bullied some more. I also get support so here again it smacks of Saturn / Mars.
As for how someone bullies, an internet bully would have Mars associated with Mercury (communication) or perhaps Pluto because they are anonymous. Mars in hard aspect to the Moon might attack women exclusively… etc. You get the idea.
Sun-Saturn
“When I was a kid, adults often told me I would be rich and famous some day. Apparently I was giving off some kind of ambition vibe early on. I think ambition is a genetic defect. You can’t have ambition unless you think there is something wrong with the way you are. Ambition is a state of feeling perpetually flawed.
By most objective standards, my career has gone well. By my internal standards, I am in a continuous state of not doing enough.” –Scott Adams, Dilbert creator.
You may have these feelings if you have:
- Any aspects in your chart that connect the Sun and Saturn (conjunct, sextile, trine, square, opposition, etc.)
- Capricorn emphasis in your chart
- Saturn in Leo
- Saturn in your fourth or tenth house.
Positive traits of Sun-Saturn connections:
- Very hard working and determined. Work rewards you when relationships don’t.
- Goal-oriented
- Inclined towards leadership or setting good examples for others.
- Ambitious.
- Loyal.
Negative traits of Sun-Saturn connections:
- Difficult childhood- parents, especially father, may have been disapproving/let you down in some way. May spend your entire life trying to get dad’s approval in some way. Felt insignificant as a child and the desire to BE significant drives you in adulthood.
- Grew up early- short/no childhood, bad things happened early on to force it.
- Lack of confidence, feel inadequate. Your very identity feels repressed.
- Emphasis on duty
- Depression-prone
- Can’t get away with anything!
- Difficulties in relating to men in general- especially “daddy issues”
- Really need to work for what you want.
- Some people may deny they have goals at all because they can’t deal with it if they fail at achieving them. Need to get started.
Poster children for Sun-Saturn:
- Scott Adams (Saturn opposite to Sun)
- Oprah Winfrey (Saturn square Sun/Venus)
- Wynonna Judd (Saturn square Sun)
- Arnold Schwartzenegger (Saturn conjunct Sun)
Synastry example: Patrick Swayze and Lisa Niemi (her sun trines his Saturn, his sun squares her Saturn).
Qualities of Sun/Saturn synastry:
- Sun person wants independence, ends up doing most of the compromising. Saturn person can be depressing to the Sun.
- Massive loyalty between the partners. Possible karmic ties, bond is hard to break. It’s like two souls have made a commitment to work on a lesson together/resolve an old issue. One feels responsible for the other- loves them enough to help them learn the hard lessons. There is a parent-child aspect to this on the psychological level.
- Saturn person admires the Sun person because the Sun person is happily living out what Saturn wishes they could. Saturn person offers guidance, security, and a sense of stability to the Sun person, and they can learn from the Sun how to act.
- The Saturn person can end up pushing the Sun down a path so they can live vicariously through them, or the Saturn person can squash the Sun person so they won’t outshine Saturn. Saturn needs to find their own purpose and joy instead.
Suggested Saturnian solutions to this problem:
- Try to examine and understand the relationship with your father, if possible. Work on healing it if possible. At the very least, see what went wrong and what you want to do differently to change it.
- You need to figure out how to control your own life and build your own sense of self. Others will not help you do this, so you need to work on independence and breaking ties with your family’s limitations.
- Develop your own sense of worth, rather than trying to fulfill someone else’s definition of it.
- Create your own masculine/masculine side identity, because you won’t learn how to do it from your dad.
- The Jupiter solution (Jupiter in Capricorn/10th): Set goals, make an action plan, go after what you want.
(God, I so need to work on my presentation right now. Nowwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww. Sigh.)
“My boyfriend has Saturn conjunct my Sun. Will he hold me back?”
He may but he may also be the best thing that ever happened to you. It’s true if someone has their Saturn in aspect to one of your planets (particularly the personal planets: Sun, Moon, Mercury, Venus, and Mars), they will have some authority over you.
They may be older, more experienced, more educated or whatever form this takes but you can’t tell from the chart how they might express this “advantage”. Will they be a mentor, an oppressor or a combination of those?Also, this aspect works in reverse. Saturn tends to feel old and insecure at least at times so the young upstart (you) may trigger these feelings.
Ultimately the onus is on the Saturn person to act responsibly and “do the right thing”. How well people manage this can be determined by their maturity level which has ve ry little to do with age. My 9 year old son restrains himself (Saturn) while his friend and peer oppresses (Saturn) his younger sisters so just keep that mind when you run into this situation in synastry. Are you being supported… or crushed?
You may recall yesterday when I was talking about this book and mentioned the Chiron is an unfixable wound thing.
Well, that night I was in a car with a friend of mine whose life is going to crap. She's got a bad family situation that she is utterly trapped in, and on top of that, her job has gone to hell due to a crazy, unpleasable boss. She is the butt monkey there and that's all there is to it. She's pretty well near nuclear meltdown and is fed up with her current career, but cannot afford to lose her job because there's kids and a husband who's job hunting.
The first half hour or so that I see her is just kind of post-work meltdown time, and during that she was saying that she thought she was just broken and unfixable and there's no way to fix yourself. That she used to think if you prayed hard enough and did enough work on yourself to figure out why you were broken, that you could fix it. Except the prayer never worked and just because you know how you got broken doesn't mean that you know how to fix it.
I knew her birth date but was all, "What is your birth year?", because I HAD to go check her Chiron placement. She is not so much into the hippie crap as I am, so I didn't say anything much about astrology specifically, but I wanted to.
Well, she's got a stellium in Pisces opposing the Uranus/Pluto conjunction. And she's got the Sun and Saturn and Chiron all next to each other. As a Sun Chiron person, I related.
Wounded, indeed. Poor girl. I worry about her, but I don't see any way to fix her life either.
Heh. Neith, like me, has a LOT of Saturn shit.
In related news, I'm reading Elsa again and the comments here get interesting. Especially the chick who's tired of Elsa talking about her boyfriend all the time. (To which I say, well, I've been there and done that at times in my life, but it is her blog and she can write what she wants, and she writes about relationships, and what's under her nose right now...so...skip reading for awhile?) But really, here come the Venus Saturn folks...
"Yes, I believe Love is great and it is the highest joy one can experience. Will I have it in any lasting form?
No.
And as a Scorp w/ Cancer Moon and a Cancer Descendent… you can just imagine how I ache for a place to rest my head and call home…and feel safe…and protected… and unconditionally loved.
But alas, I have Saturn opposition Venus, an empty 7th house & my Venus is in Sag.
Apparently the universe doesn’t think I need a stable, lasting relationship. Um, OK. Thanks Universe! Too bad I’m too sensitive to endure this.
It’s brutal. I have intense, very short love affairs that I unconsciously destroy or the Universe destroys for reasons unbeknownst to me.
It’s fate.
And yet, I need love like I need air…but it just slips right through my fingers…
And it’s too painful to keep starting over since I’m apparently doomed due to the Saturn opposition."- "You are not doomed..What you are looking for you just haven’t found
yet…I have always thought saturn venus contacts showed stability..But
stability doen’t come easy and all of us have a different definition of
it.
My version of it is owning my own place that I can alway run home too if things get weird even if its only for a day..IT WASN’T A MAN PROVIDING THAT FOR ME EVEN THOUGH I ALWAYS THOUGHT IT Was..Even when I had that I NEVER FELT SAFE..
You just need to really think about what it is your looking for. You are the only one who can make you feel safe..That really is the truth…"
Sun/Jupiter aspects in the Natal chart do make for someone who will keep on looking for that special person to share their lives. I have an out-of-sign Sun/Jupiter conjunction (Jupiter is in the 12th House) and lord only knows, I needed that inner optimism because it took my Libra Sun/Moon self a looong time to find my partner – past my Uranus opposition cycle.
I am happy to say that this one is pretty darned good. Clear to understand, gives examples and explains what they mean. Huzzah!
The "Slevin System" (to be honest, this makes me giggle a little, it sounds like some kind of huckster thing. Oh well, the author can't help her name) actually works pretty well for figuring things out for yourself.
Key points in the system:
- Determine the sign and degree on the Midheaven.
- Find the planet nearest to that degree in Ptolemaic (well, let's say exact) aspect within signs. This is your Principal Planet.
- Note the PP's sign, strength, and direction.
- Note the PP's house or if it's within 5 degrees of the next hours cusp.
- Note the aspects the PP makes.
- Note the house(s) the planet rules.
- Note if the PP is conjunct/within a degree of the Cardinal Axis
- Note if the PP is in mutual or mixed mutual reception with any other planets
- Note if the PP is conjunct/within a degree of any Royal Fixed Stars.
- Combine those factors to get a description of the personality, and define the strongest attributes for achieving success, notoriety, or the highest visibility.
- Do this again with the planet nearest to the degree of the PP.
- Note any planets in the tenth house
- Leo 8 degrees MC.
- Planet closest to it is Mars in Leo at 5 degrees in the 9th house. No particular advantages or disadvantages. It squares the Sun/Chiron conjunction (The tying planet with Mars is Chiron at 5 degrees, square, but since this book doesn't go into Chiron, I'll just ignore this.) in the seventh. Sun is the ruler of Leo.
- No fixed stars, no cardinal axis.
Principal Planet conjunct the MC = "the fish are caught close to the market, with a brief and seemingly effortless return. The catch of the day is fresh, local, and readily available." If it's square, "the boat did not need to travel as far but the tide is against the fisherman on his return trip, and the motor on the boat had to work at full capacity to bring the catch in."
Mars as a PP = your boat is a speedboat, with fishermen who go off looking for sharks. Bunch of warriors. Example: guy who started a volunteering crime-fighting organization.
Not featured in the above system, but in the book, is a section on heredity. If you have Cancer/Capricorn emphasis or Moon/Saturn ties, you are bound to your family, like it or not, and can't escape. (Certainly sums up my life.)
But the part that makes me happy...
I totally have that, so YAY ME!"In the Slevin System, the tried and true formula that indicates success in one's chosen field of endeavor is a specific aspect called the Boomerang. It occurs when:
"Individuals with this extremely fortunate aspect are poster people for success. In the style of an express elevator, Fate enables them to reach the top, parting obstacles like the Red Sea, and remain in a penthouse of achievement. Their rank and public presentations can set the standard in their profession, and they often leave a legacy of notable success or notoriety." (Example: Katharine Hepburn.)
- The ruler of the Midheaven is in Ptolemaic aspect to the Midheaven.
- Even if the ruler of the Midheaven is not the Principal Planet, if it is conjunct, trine, sextile, square or opposing the Midheaven within an orb of 8 degrees, success is a given in the Slevin System."
