Theoretically, in a synastry, two people coming together with this aspect should facilitate one another in this way. There is an understanding between them. They feel comfortable together, complimented. They like one another. This works even in compatible elements (fire/air, earth/water) without an exact aspect, although the more exact the aspect, the greater the integration. In theory, at least.

Why isn’t it foolproof, then?

Ever had a non-sexual relationship with someone whose Sun was conjunct your Moon, or vice versa? A friendship perhaps? Work colleague? Ever notice what happens? Usually, you get along okay, sometimes fabulously. You like the same things, you have the same attitudes, you feel comfortable with one another. You have fun together. But then, what happens? All that same-y stuff runs down an unconscious river between you. Pretty soon, you don’t notice it anymore, and then that’s when the conflicts of other planets kick in. And that wave of unconscious nicey-nice-ness that you were relying on suddenly turns on you a bit, because you find that the same qualities you really don’t like in yourself are reflected in the other person, like a bad mirror staring back at you all the time. Moon in Leo starts resenting Sun in Leo’s need for attention. Moon in Pisces starts steaming because Sun in Pisces is never home for dinner on time.

I'm sort of amused at this since my double Sadge friend is coming to visit...we're not conjunct, though.

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Here.

People with close Sun-Chiron conjunctions often are healers, and this is all the more true for you with your eighth-house Sun. The conjunction with the North Node tells me that this is your destiny, and it’s about to be triggered by the cardinal T-square in 2010. The trick is that we first have to heal ourselves, and planets on the South Node often give us clues for how to go about this. You may want to think about how you view material possessions and whether you would be prepared to give it all up if fulfilling your purpose in life depended on it. Moreover, you may want to meditate on how past and future are balanced in your present.

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Why Sookie and Bill hit it off in real life. Good analysis!

Her Saturn in Libra conjoins his Sun and Jupiter exactly, and his Saturn in Taurus closely squares her Leo Sun. In light of them publicly announcing their engagement, I see these Saturn aspects as a very good indicator the relationship will prove durable. As I have said before, Saturn is happiest when the legalities are met. It will be interesting to see when they choose to marry, because it is highly likely to happen during her Saturn return, when transiting Saturn in Libra hits one of his many planets in Libra. There is little doubt in my mind this will be a very equitable arrangement with willingness to compromise on both sides.

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Here's a take on this I haven't heard before:

Because while every house in the natal chart will, at times, be challenging, the house your Sun occupied at the moment of your first independent breath will always be the most frustrating. That’s because the areas of life it represents will always be the most demanding. They have to be. While your Sun sign is your karmic degree (that part of your contract that validates your solar greatness and illuminates to the outside world how you’re karmically qualified to make your mark in this lifetime), your Sun house is the clause in your contract that unequivocally identifies just where you agreed to make it. Therefore, on the bright side, your Sun house represents the field of human life where you can expect to shine because it reveals exactly where you promised to hit that spiritual home run.
On the dark side, however, this house also represents the areas of life where the cosmos expects you to show up for the games, play by the rules, and swing for the fences like the pro you were trained to be. Yes, the one you agreed to become, not just on those good-luck days when you feel like it, but on those bad-hair days when you don’t. Unless, of course, you don’t mind forfeiting your spot on the field and your shot at success. After all, it is your promise, your consequences. Besides, this house is not supposed to be easy. Being brilliant never is, at least not when it requires keeping a cosmic promise to literally get up every day and figuratively break a real human sweat. This, by the way, is more than just the best way to honor your solar commitment. It’s the only way to access your maximum potential. That’s right. There’s absolutely no way you will ever be able to reap the universal rewards of success and fulfillment without doing the hard work of being a major player in your Sun house. In fact, every time you choose to do something less strenuous in that house, like perhaps nothing, the universe takes it personally, as it should. This is usually when your ego takes a hit and your life takes a dive. When you neglect the responsibilities of your Sun house, you’re not only sidestepping your personal commitment, you’re actually bypassing your designated potential, causing you to unhappily plummet straight into the astrological abyss of deep solar dissatisfaction. This is not to be confused with any other type of earthly discontent because, when it comes to the dark side of an untapped Sun, the dissatisfaction is so deep it actually alienates even your strongest supporters by compelling you to habitually whine and complain about all the things you never get from your Sun house, while even more habitually making no human attempt to work for them. In short, Lazy Sun Syndrome, and yes, you may already be afflicted.

Guilty....

For instance, if your 10th house Sun is not out there in the public eye doing a brilliant interpretation of responsible leadership, you can be sure it’s only because you’re somewhere inside your own private hell complaining about the authority you always fail to achieve and the recognition you never seem to get. If, on the other inharmonious hand, you’re the one weeping and moaning about relationships that are too difficult to sustain and partnerships that are impossible to achieve, you can be sure that your 7th house Sun isn’t doing its best to be a shining example of balanced cooperation at its finest. Who do you suppose spends a good deal of their time griping about resources that aren’t there, banks that don’t come through, and partners who are emotionally, financially, or spiritually bankrupt? The 8th house Sun whose powerful paranoia keeps them from doing their very own share of the deep sharing work. It doesn’t matter if that 2nd house Sun of yours has agreed to show the rest of us how to make money and accumulate wealth, if a reliable value system has not been developed, your lazy Sun complaints about high prices and insufficient earnings are old and annoying. If your 4th house Sun is constantly crying about the lack of stability on the domestic scene, it’s a pretty sure bet that you’re the one dominating the household by not doing the hard work of giving others the psychological foundation you promised, or worse, the emotional security they need.

Sun in the 7th House
With the Sun positioned in the 7th house of your natal chart, you have agreed to apply the hard-earned expertise of your Sun sign to the mutual commitment of close personal relationships. This means that you must now use the power of your solar degree to responsibly celebrate others, brilliantly neutralize adversaries, and impressively establish alliances. No wonder you find it necessary to measure yourself by the status and value of your partnerships. On some level, you’re instinctively aware that you just can’t achieve success and happiness all by yourself. You can’t.

In fact, accessing your maximum potential not only depends on your willingness to relate to those around you effectively, but on your ability to do so objectively. With your Sun pledged to the symmetrical spirit of the 7th house, you’re actually committed to the collaborative give-and-take of shared cooperation. That is why the universe tends to provide an obstacle-free path for you every time you direct your earthly efforts to any aspect of social enrichment, contractual agreements, or public relations.

Not surprisingly, being so other-oriented does have a few personal disadvantages in the real world, like being a universal magnet for every instant entanglement and mismatched liaison on the planet. This explains that frequently frustrating social life with all the less-than-rewarding relationships, or as you see it, your inescapable fate, which it is until you make a conscious decision to bit that unavoidable bullet and begin the hard work of building your partnerships on the only foundation that can support them: mutual respect and total equality. You did make a promise to devote yourself to the hard work of creating equitable unions by balancing opposing forces, not manipulating them, which is why harmony and prosperity must now be achieved without losing yourself in the process, or worse, dominating whoever will let you. It’s also why your happiness tends to head south whenever you try to either tyrannically control the important people in your life or just helplessly sacrifice yourself for the sake of keeping them in it. That’s because surrendering to either one of these two self-serving behaviors is when a real partnership ceases to be one and, according to the cosmos, the real reason you’re often without one.

Your Lazy Sun Syndrome Complaints: “My partners aren’t devoted to me;” “My partners are always trying to control me.”

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A very good analysis.

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"Vid has his Sun conjunct Saturn. This means he has to earn his self esteem. I think this is true for all but certainly true for Sun conjunct Saturn.
The Sun = Leo = Shine = Gold.  Sun conjunct Saturn can shine like gold if they earn their self esteem. Otherwise they shine like fool’s gold, see?

If they get their self esteem by oppressing others  or judging them harshly? No good.

If they earn their self esteem by cheating or cutting corners in any way?  No good.

The only path to a solid sense of self for Sun Saturn is one of uncompromised integrity so based on this, I can’t let Vid’s father do his homework and call it “being supportive”.

I feel very strongly I have to push my son to achieve because if I don’t and if he doesn’t, he is going to be a very burdened (Saturn) person who will burden others. He will be burdened looking for someone to judge for one thing. Judge harshly so that he shines in comparison and that’s just the beginning of the nasty manifestations.

I tell my son that we feel good about ourselves because we work hard to the best of our abilities and this is the only method that will lead you somewhere. Maybe next time he’ll be born with an instant ticket to the top but he’s not got those cards this time.

Sun Saturn is tasked with building their ego up from nothing and in spite of oppression. If they do this, things go well.  If they fail they’ve got to spend the rest of their lives tossing wet blankets (Saturn) on other people’s egos and shine (Sun) so others can be as miserable as they are.

One thing I notice is anyone who has earned their self esteem NEVER, EVER impedes another person trying to earn theirs.  If you want to come up with a hallmark of a person with character, that right there should serve."

Wow. This is powerful. Take note, folks.

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So I'm taking Elsa's beginner astrology class, and I figured I'd mention a few of the posts I did over there.

The point of the class is to talk about Suns and Sun house placements ONLY. (I feel like I have every limb but like, one big toe tied behind my back not to go advanced on this. We have a lot of advanced folk taking the class because Elsa is cool, but we're getting told not to go into much beyond that.) One of the points made somewhere was that where your sun is is where you are supposed to SHINE and if you don't, it's a big ol' problem.

So, here was my total whining about it:

I have a question regarding this quote about not letting your Sun shine = massive dysfunction: what about the 7th? The entire problem is that I don't have control over whether or not I get a partner and the sun gets to shine. Yeah, I could and should force myself to online date (though at this point I'd rather pine alone or shoot myself than do it, I feel sick to my stomach every time I look at the ads, they're all terrible!) because I have no other options for meeting people at this age short of lightning striking. But even if I meet someone and there's mutual liking, I can't control how long someone wants to stay with me and I don't have any power over that. All my power is gone because someone else has to hand it to me.

I hate being astrologically codependent. I hate it SO much. 

See, it's totally frustrating. I have to have someone else's wind beneath my wings before I can fly? WTF? I can't make my own wind? I have to sit on the ground for years waiting for someone to come along and decide that they wanna inflate me? Grrrrr. That is just SO disempowering. It's what pisses me off about that placement, that you are NOT ALLOWED to go it alone and like it or function independently. (Says the Aries South Node.)

Someone asked me about projection issues and here's what I came up with. I'm actually fairly amazed at my insight on this. Not so much that I project onto actual people...

I am pretty much only satisfied with a partner, but on the other hand, DRAMA comes along with partners. They have problems with what I do and they tell me and I get upset and can't ever manage to "fix it" to their satisfaction, I have problems with what they do and don't tell them because I can't bear for the relationship to end, eventually they get sick of me and dump me... Partnership really isn't a cure-all or something that "fixes" me, but I think when you have personal planets on the descendant, you're going to be inclined to think that this will be the cure-all even when your rational mind knows better. I think that's my projection, that I can't be happy alone and it's better to be with a loser than to be alone, even though my rational mind learned that isn't true the hard way :P My mom has moon in 7th and I got raised this way as well.

So as far as I'm concerned, the projection thing kind of happens even without an actual person to project onto. Now, you might have to tie my Sun conjunct Chiron into it, i.e. Chiron is where you are broken and I just feel broken in general, and maybe those without it don't feel that way. But on some level, EVEN THOUGH I MENTALLY KNOW BETTER BY NOW, and learned that the hard way, my hormones/limbic brain/id/what have you is darned convinced that "get a man and it fixes everything." (Michael Lutin seems to think this if you read SunShines, which makes me wonder what the hell his node placement is. He very specifically says that your personal issues of self-hatred go away if you have some other person around to interrupt the self-hate chanting you do when alone.) And in real life practice, no it doesn't. Hell, that causes even more problems!

Anyway, the answer to the question of "is my Sun shiny" is nope, no it is not.

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This is great! Okay, not the bullying, but the analysis.

Anyone who really feels their power and prowess (MARS) has no need to batter people. That right there is a statement of fact. So I would say when you meet a bully they have a Mars problem.

Next, if you have self esteem, you’ve not reason to harm another person’s self esteem so my guess is Mars in hard aspect to one the personal planets, most like the Sun. But this does not mean everyone with Mars square their Sun is a bully!

Saturn in aspect to Mars is frustrating for the individual and may also create a bully but you cannot take this for granted. As an example, the soldier has Saturn in aspect to his Mars and he hunts bullies and tyrants.

I would say a person who gets bullied has similar aspects as the person who bullies, the lesson being you must learn to stand up for yourself.

I am a person who get bullied (to an extent) and when I stand up for myself I get bullied some more. I also get support so here again it smacks of Saturn / Mars.

As for how someone bullies, an internet bully would have Mars associated with Mercury (communication) or perhaps Pluto because they are anonymous. Mars in hard aspect to the Moon might attack women exclusively… etc. You get the idea.

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Thoughts from Elsa...

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   Sun-Saturn  

“When I was a kid, adults often told me I would be rich and famous some day. Apparently I was giving off some kind of ambition vibe early on. I think ambition is a genetic defect. You can’t have ambition unless you think there is something wrong with the way you are. Ambition is a state of feeling perpetually flawed.

By most objective standards, my career has gone well. By my internal standards, I am in a continuous state of not doing enough.” –Scott Adams, Dilbert creator.

You may have these feelings if you have:

• Any aspects in your chart that connect the Sun and Saturn (conjunct, sextile, trine, square, opposition, etc.)
• Capricorn emphasis in your chart
• Saturn in Leo
• Saturn in your fourth or tenth house.

Positive traits of Sun-Saturn connections:

• Very hard working and determined. Work rewards you when relationships don’t.
• Goal-oriented
• Inclined towards leadership or setting good examples for others.
• Ambitious.
• Loyal.

Negative traits of Sun-Saturn connections:

• Difficult childhood- parents, especially father, may have been disapproving/let you down in some way. May spend your entire life trying to get dad’s approval in some way. Felt insignificant as a child and the desire to BE significant drives you in adulthood.
• Grew up early- short/no childhood, bad things happened early on to force it.
• Lack of confidence, feel inadequate. Your very identity feels repressed.
• Emphasis on duty
• Depression-prone
• Can’t get away with anything!
• Difficulties in relating to men in general- especially “daddy issues”
• Really need to work for what you want.
• Some people may deny they have goals at all because they can’t deal with it if they fail at achieving them. Need to get started.

Poster children for Sun-Saturn:

• Scott Adams (Saturn opposite to Sun)
• Oprah Winfrey (Saturn square Sun/Venus)
• Wynonna Judd (Saturn square Sun)
• Arnold Schwartzenegger (Saturn conjunct Sun)

Synastry example: Patrick Swayze and Lisa Niemi (her sun trines his Saturn, his sun squares her Saturn).

Qualities of Sun/Saturn synastry:

• Sun person wants independence, ends up doing most of the compromising. Saturn person can be depressing to the Sun.
• Massive loyalty between the partners. Possible karmic ties, bond is hard to break. It’s like two souls have made a commitment to work on a lesson together/resolve an old issue. One feels responsible for the other- loves them enough to help them learn the hard lessons. There is a parent-child aspect to this on the psychological level.
• Saturn person admires the Sun person because the Sun person is happily living out what Saturn wishes they could. Saturn person offers guidance, security, and a sense of stability to the Sun person, and they can learn from the Sun how to act.
• The Saturn person can end up pushing the Sun down a path so they can live vicariously through them, or the Saturn person can squash the Sun person so they won’t outshine Saturn. Saturn needs to find their own purpose and joy instead.

Suggested Saturnian solutions to this problem:

• Try to examine and understand the relationship with your father, if possible. Work on healing it if possible. At the very least, see what went wrong and what you want to do differently to change it.
• You need to figure out how to control your own life and build your own sense of self. Others will not help you do this, so you need to work on independence and breaking ties with your family’s limitations.
• Develop your own sense of worth, rather than trying to fulfill someone else’s definition of it.
• Create your own masculine/masculine side identity, because you won’t learn how to do it from your dad.
• The Jupiter solution (Jupiter in Capricorn/10^th): Set goals, make an action plan, go after what you want.

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