Saturn Return Can Bite Me

More on Venus Saturn

nobody@vox.com(fullmoon) — Fri, 17 Jul 2009 08:07:48 -0700

Read and post comments | Send to a friend

Britney Spears's issues

nobody@vox.com(fullmoon) — Wed, 01 Jul 2009 09:37:02 -0700

Venus square Saturn and Jupiter. Not to mention her 4th/10th house nodes. I tend to think the 4th/10th/Cancer/Capricorn nodal connection is the worst of the bunch, actually (yes, even worse than mine and I'm biased :P). Home vs. family and being forced to switch from one orientation to the other to me seems like a real bitch.

I am also smirking at the swamp remark for the South Node. That's...a bit much.

Read and post comments | Send to a friend

Today's Mystic Medusa

nobody@vox.com(fullmoon) — Fri, 31 Oct 2008 13:34:31 -0700

Well, this is cheering, for what it is:

Oh it's such fun how Venus squares BOTH Saturn and Uranus on Monday, sort of helping to personalise the whole Saturn Vs Uranus opposition via our own relationships...
In case it helps to imagine these inner archetypes facing off - Saturn is the Sage & Uranus is the Sacred Clown. Saturn is the Status Quo and Uranus is "the status wot?" iconoclast, genuinely amazed that anyone would even give a f**k. Saturn is your sometimes quite helpful inhibitions. Uranus is audaciously creative. Saturn is the quiet satisfaction of having gotten your taxes done. Uranus is the joy of a sudden hare-brained bolt of brilliance from out of nowhere.
Saturnine relationships are often duos who do well at work together, quiet and stable, getting off on the mutual reliance, sense of safety and shared opinions. Uranian relationships cause lots of w.t.f? moments from friends, if not actual tut-tutting. They're unconventional, growth stimulating & ludicrously good fun.
Saturn is society standards and expectations. Uranus is individuation & following one's own instincts. Obviously, either principle taken to extremes is awful: The juice-less, dry old voice of outmoded judgements. The total whack-job gibbering in the street. Uranian brilliance built on a foundation of homage paid to Saturn is amazing.

Read and post comments | Send to a friend

Add to the Venus Saturn roster...

nobody@vox.com(fullmoon) — Wed, 29 Oct 2008 16:14:37 -0700

..one Jason Mraz.

Read and post comments | Send to a friend

Venus Saturn profiles

nobody@vox.com(fullmoon) — Wed, 09 Jul 2008 10:22:29 -0700

Following up on this idea, first by seeing who I've already mentioned on here.

Venus Williams. (Can't say I know squat about her love life, though.)
Angelina Jolie. Well, we all know her history...in and out of relationships, at least one drastically older man involved in one of 'em. NO freaking inhibition anywhere that I can see. I wouldn't figure her for a V/S at all, really.
This guy, who I analyzed already. Again, he manifests multiple interests (again, how?!), but does have the V/S going on in his "I'll never love truly again" and liking of older women.
Tim Gunn. Hasn't had a relationship since the 80's. This fellow's the V/S poster child even worse than I am.

Here is a good list of famous V/S people. Hm, who do we have?

Venus conjunct Saturn: Hank Aaron, Ian Scott Anderson, Ray Bradbury, Edgar Cayce, Richard Chamberlain, Bill Gates, Steffi Graf, Lena Horne, Ashley Judd, Julianne Moore, Kim Novak, Yoko Ono, James Spader, Gloria Steinem, Donald Trump.
Venus in Hard Aspect to Saturn: Squares - Oppositions - Clint Eastwood, Billy Ray Cyrus.

From what I recall reading about Edgar Cayce in this book,he married young and yet had some kind of soul mate-y relationship with his secretary as well. Don't think he quite had an affair, but it was one of those "we were together in a past life" sorts of things. (I really don't know squat on this past life stuff, I am just repeating what I read.)

Richard Chamberlain- long-term relationship since the 70's.

Bill Gates- uh, he's married, wasn't at a youngish age, don't know more than that. (Don't think I want to.)

Steffi Graf- got married in her early 30's. Interesting thing here is that her husband claims to have pined for her since the 80's. Ashley Judd- also married in her early 30's.

Lena Horne- married and divorced, second marriage lasted until husband's death in 1971, hasn't remarried since. Yoko Ono- uh, professional widow?

Julianne Moore- married 3 times. The Donald- ditto. James Spader- working up to a second marriage. Clint Eastwood, what a mess. Blly Ray Cyrus- also kind of a mess. What is with all the hidden children?

Then there's my favorite, Gloria Steinem. Doesn't get married until her 60's, then a few years later, her husband dies. I always figured that would be how I'd get married- (a) very late in life, then (b) he dies. That always seemed pretty V/S to me too.

Read and post comments | Send to a friend

Venus square Saturn: what it's like.

nobody@vox.com(fullmoon) — Wed, 05 Sep 2007 16:29:10 -0700

(This is part of the Group Writing Project for Seduction Central.)

I was trying to explain this to someone at some point, but it really boils down to this:

Let's say that I have a crush on/the hots for/am secretly in love with someone who doesn't love me back. Okay, it's theoretically possible they're just really good at hiding, but I would be 99.9 percent sure that it's not mutual. Most likely, said person doesn't know I'm alive.
Let's say that someone holds a gun to my head, in front of the love object, and says, "Tell him how you feel or I'll shoot you."
I would immediately say, "Shoot me." I wouldn't even have to think about it. Just shoot me! Because I do not want to be alive to deal with the consequences of saying "I love you" to someone who doesn't love me back.

I don't have this issue if there's obvious mutual attraction, but I still sure as hell won't say the words first. Never ever. If the guy's waiting for me to say it first, that won't happen. I'd never date someone shy. If the guy doesn't make obvious moves towards me, I won't take the lead. I am not a Rules Girl, but I am afraid of scaring a guy off. The first guy my mother ever said "I love you" to...well, she never saw him again. (Until he found out she was engaged, but that's another story.) My mom doesn't have Venus square Saturn, but I always suspect that is going to happen to me if I made the move. Oddly enough, I was always like that, long before she told me that story.

I don't flirt. Ever. There is no way I'm sending anyone the message that "Tee hee hee, you're cute and I wanna fuck you!" (Which to me is what all flirting boils down to, really.) I hate flirting. It is way too obvious. Not to mention that well, I just don't find too many people that I'd WANT to send that message to. I don't get flirting as a manner of play or whatever else it's used for. I cannot conceive of being so obvious about my liking of a person from the getgo. What if he doesn't like me back? Because I REALLY HATE IT when someone tells me he likes me and it's not mutual. I pretty much run in terror, never to be seen again, because I am very bad at turning someone down and coping with it afterwards. I hate that moment, I don't want to cause it on someone else.

My method of handling crushes, such as they are, is to do nothing. I lurk in the shadows and observe him, trying to figure out if he's worth crushing on. If I'm feeling bold, I might stroll by in a cute outfit, not even looking anywhere in his direction. In the last few years, I have to say that the observation method has been good, because I would have died of embarrassment had I made a move on people who turned out to be taken and/or gay. Not that those people would have had interest in me anyway, but at least I didn't feel like a total idiot once I found out.

Also, like Tim Gunn, I am not nearly as hot as people think I am. Er, let me rephrase that... I do not get nearly the amount of male attention that some people think I should be getting. I've had some people tell me that I DO get lots of attention and don't notice it, but...well, I really don't think so. I'm an odd duck when it comes to looks and unless you like nerds, I don't fall into anyone's "type" too well. I was also considered quite dog-ugly growing up, and I really look about the same then as I do now, so I generally assume I'm not most people's cup of tea. Which is fine, because most people aren't mine either, and I'd hate to look like a supermodel and be turning down men all the dang time.

Love is not fun for me. It's extremely fucking serious. I don't do casual dating, it's not fun to "just go out for a good time with a man." Going on dates with people I don't like Like That, I can't enjoy it. I keep thinking about how I just want to flee, how much I don't want to have to dump him and yet I can't stand making out with him. A good chunk of the time, I've given in and made out with the guy just because it's easier than saying no, even if my body is screaming no.

If I have the hots for someone, my brain is going direct to fantasizing about being married for life, no matter what. I'm not maritally crazed, mind you. I don't even necessarily WANT to get married, I think I'd make a shitty wife and hate having to deal with being treated like Mrs. HisProperty, and would probably be happier living in the same apartment complex as a boyfriend than even shacking up. I fear shacking up big time. And yet, my brain wants the legal commitment. My heart doesn't, but the brain does. I was dumb enough to get engaged on the third date (after a long dry spell and a previous ex who was not about the committing long-term), why? Because among other reasons, this one wanted to commit.

Saturn squashes Venus? Well, yes. Flat like pancake. I don't have much Venus at all, really. It's pulverized under an anvil somewhere.

Read and post comments | Send to a friend

Saturn and Venus kick you upside the head.

nobody@vox.com(fullmoon) — Tue, 14 Aug 2007 13:18:48 -0700

I didn't write this, but I probably could have written something similar (except my Venus is in a different sign, and Saturn doesn't rule my 7th. Venus rules my 7th and Saturn squares it. Maybe that's equivalent?).

I am constantly being disappointed in love. The men whom I could love simply don’t love me back. The only guy who ever stuck around for me was the one I wasn’t in love with. When I was a child my father rejected me, and ever since then the same thing has been happening with the men that I care for.

I fall for hypnotic, charismatic men who know how to influence their surroundings. They are capable of deep and powerful love. Unfortunately, I am never the person who receives it. To make it worse, two men I fell for are now madly in love with the same woman, who is ten years older than me. At the same time, after all this time I still don’t feel like I’ve met the person who can truly sweep me off my feet.

In other areas of my life I am independent and in charge, but in love I just feel like a victim. I’m starting to believe I have this terrible deep inadequacy that can never be erased. I need a lover who is as strong as I am, but my partners never seem to recognize my best qualities. What can I do? Am I simply destined to be unloved?

Elsa's answer:

I don’t believe anyone is destined to be unloved, but I know for sure that loves comes easier to some than others. And with Saturn ruling your 7th house and Venus in Scorpio square Saturn, you are clearly one of the others and for that I am sorry and I will try to help.

Saturn tied to Venus delays love in most cases, and if you read around you’ll be told that love comes later in life but I’d say there is no such guarantee. Love comes later in life to those willing to work for it. And I am sorry but this is just a fact and thinking otherwise is sort of like believing we all get rich in the end. Er… no we don’t!

No arguments with that...

So yes, Venus Saturn can love and be loved but you have to accept the conditions which most people just will not do. And I don’t mean to make this about me but I am going to use my personal life to illustrate this because I can’t see any other way to offer you something of substance that might actually help.

I don’t know if you read my blog regularly but I have a great love with a man I call the soldier. And our relationship is basically impossible. We are constantly thwarted. We are pounded in every way you can possibly imagine. With Saturn highly emphasized in both the synastry (aspects between charts) and the composite, we are delayed, screwed, blued and tattooed on a routine basis but we love each other and we hang in.

Once again...this comes up. I think in a sick way, I also find that sort of thing fascinating. I know I'd hate it if I was actually in that kind of relationship IRL, but part of me really does want to see how it'd come out. Even though I KNOW it'd be badly, and it's not like I am looking for stress in relationships. (Obviously, it finds me anyway.) Hell, one could say that Older Ex was someone I already had that kind of relationship with, but it wasn't as binding as one would think in the end. (Though if he still thinks of me, maybe it was more than I thought.)

Sorta off-topic, I am currently working on the astrological charts of a friend of mine and her husband- he has been in Pissy Bitch mode for a few months now and it is worrisome. So far I can't say I've seen why he is having Pissy Bitch mode now, since he doesn't have any major transits that would cause such going on, and he's got a massive stellium in Aquarius. I was assuming he must be a Scorpio rising (my friend is a Scorpio), but nope, Sag rising. In my experience, it takes a hell of a lot for an Aquarius to get pissy and yell, and Sags aren't inclined in that direction so much either. (I was flabbergasted when a friend of mine with two planets in Aquarius admitted to getting annoyed at someone last week.) But it turns out he has Mars conjunct Saturn, and she has Mars opposed to Saturn. Well, there ya go. Oof.

The synastry isn't massively Saturninan other than them both having that particular affinity, but their composite chart has a whopping moon/Jupiter/Saturn/Uranus conjuction in Capricorn- almost all of their planets are there, except for some stray Saggishness. Heck, the planets away from the bottom are in their 6th and 10th houses. I said, "Wow, this looks a lot more like an ideal business partnership than a schmoopy relationship." She was all, "No way would we go into business together." I don't know...

Okay, back on topic.

And we have found that by accepting the conditions and the limitations, the universe does support the relationship, but hey! No whining. No whining when sometimes weeks pass and we can’t see each other. No whining because other couples have it easier than we do. No whining even though we are pretty sure it will probably be years before we can actually be together. Getting the idea? Who would sign up for this?

Well you would if you were smart. Because the love is real and it is deep and with a chart like yours anything less well never satisfy. So here’s the point:

Forget the love that other people have because it has nothing to do with you.

Heh. Yeah... I do get jealous of other people's loves. A lot of them seem to be fairly easy- fall in, stay in, all is snuggly, happened when they were 18 years old... okay, you know what I mean. It's frustrating.

Be willing to redefine what it is you think you want because as you have noticed you’re not getting it. If you are consistently denied what you want, it might be productive to want something else.

Well, in my case, I am choosing to want singlehood... which mostly works out very nicely, thank you. (Especially lately because so many people are having astro-weirding warping their love lives in the last month. I am really hoping that crappity wears off soon before divorces happen.)

But.

For example, I want convenience! I want a man who lives right down the street who loves me like the man who does not live right down the street. And I want this new hologram man to be of the same quality of the man who comes with all the challenges and guess what? Too bad! That man does not exist. So I can pine for this thing that doesn’t exist or I can live in reality, yes? And you can do the same.

Ask the universe to send you a real love, not a fantasy love. Ask for something singular and hand-picked to challenge you. Then commit to doing absolutely whatever it takes to feed and maintain the relationship. And accept that pain is part of the deal. With a chart like yours, relationship at times will be absolutely grueling. You will be made to face your fear when you are scared to death but I can tell you firsthand the reward is in proportion.

That sounds right...fucking horrible, but "right." That is generally how relationships go for me. (Chiron in the mix too.)

"What you’re doing is working the deprivation side of Saturn. No love is safe, see? No love = control. You’re going to have to work much, much harder. Believe it or not you’re shirking your duties here. It is much easier to say I don’t have or I will never get, then it is to go out and work for it.

....

Um. Yeah. True and true.

"And I am sorry but if I wrote this any other way this would have been crap for your purposes. La la la, you’ll find love late in life just isn’t going to cut it. The love is there, you’re just going to have to swim upstream to get it but here’s the trick: if you decide to do this you will find it exhilarating and incredibly satisfying. It’s the difference between working for your money and being handed it. Which of those experiences do you think is peak? Come to recognize you’ve got no interest in tutti-fruitti easy-peasy light-fare love and you’ll be on your way."

Read and post comments | Send to a friend

That's surprisingly warm and fuzzy for Saturn.

nobody@vox.com(fullmoon) — Fri, 04 Aug 2006 14:52:34 -0700

I rather liked this take on Saturn aspects in relationships.

"It is often stated that the Saturn person has a restricting or limiting influence on the other person's involved planet. This is true to an extent but it should be understood that Saturn is the vulnerable one in this situation. He is trying to hide his pain, his weaknesses from his partner and does this with a self-protecting mechanism of domination and 'parental' guidance. The very part of the other person Saturn is trying to restructure is simply an unconscious projection on his part--it is a part of the Saturnian personality that he recognizes but can't consciously associate with himself. Through this relationship, and the reflection of the unconscious need for growth, the Saturnian person becomes more conscious, more developed, in his own right. So how does this affect the other person? Well, it can be very difficult at times but if the person can understand this part of the relationship and work with it, they too will grow. The Saturnian contact will help strengthen the other person's planet and give it more conscious structure."

Something related is this comparison of how various report writers describe the same aspect. That's intriguing.

Read and post comments | Send to a friend

Fun with imaginary couples' synastry.

nobody@vox.com(fullmoon) — Tue, 25 Jul 2006 16:04:19 -0700

I haven't done much with regards to synastry. For one thing, I haven't been coupled with someone in years, so who was there to practice on, and I sure as hell didn't want to say, practice this stuff with my exes's birthdates.

Anyhoo, I got a wacky idea for how to practice this stuff: track down the birth information of my favorite celebrity crush (out of sheer embarrassment and Google paranoia, let's not say who it is, mmkay?) and compare his stuff to mine.

I suspected that we would probably hit it off if we ever met in person (though yeah, THAT ain't ever gonna happen), and there'd be an attraction, but we'd have a few things differing between us that might not mean we'd make it as a lasting couple. Namely, he has a big ol' domestic I-wanna-be-Ward-Cleaver-in-a-few-years vibe that he's been known to yak about in public a lot, and i'm the sort of person who'd rather chew off a limb than have a family with 2 requisite kids and be the domestic goddess of his dreams. I also guessed that he'd be a fellow Sagittarius moon, and I suspect that he's something like Taurus rising. This comes from reading the Katherine de Jersey books- she goes on about how people kind of look like their main signs a lot, and he's kind of got the round-face thing going on like me. (I look more like a Taurus than a Scorpio, maybe that's because I have more planets in that. That and I can't exactly tell on my own if I have Scorpio bedroom eyes. Seriously, YOU try giving yourself smoldering looks in the mirror without laughing. It's like you turn into Zoolander. BLUE STEEL!) And he's got the Sag body type (long-legged), as do I.

Well, I couldn't find his birth time anywhere so I couldn't confirm the rising sign or figure out in what signs his houses are placed, but I got enough stuff to work with. I was right on the Sag moon, heh.

Anyway, in some areas, we were quite compatible. The Venus and Mars connections were all warm and fuzzy sextiles on his end and mine, and our Mars and Jupiters are similarly compatible. So, that equates to "sex up the wazoo, woo!" And presumably our Sag-ishness would get along very well too, partying it up or something. If he did turn out to be a Taurus rising, we'd probably be even more compatible, with opposing Uranuses and axis points. I'm also amused that he has Sun conjunct Pluto, which attracts Scorpio types. The same link says that if you have a T-square (I do, OF COURSE), you attract someone who has a personal planet within orb of your squares.

On the other hand, as a non-domestic person it kinda gave me the heebie-jeebies to see that he has Venus in Virgo and two planets in Cancer. All nurture-y and domestic and neatnik-I-wanna-June wife. Blech. It was kind of amusing reading The New Astrology For Women and hearing about how a Moon and Venus describe what kind of woman he wants- he wants an anal nerd with a neat house, AND at the same time, a globetrotting party girl who's hilarious and the life of the party. Um, yeah, GOOD LUCK FINDING THAT MIX, buddy. No wonder despite the "I wanna be married with kids in a few years" stuff, he's still single.

Okay, so I'm a nerd and except for the fact that I'm a slob, he would probably think that was hot. He could like, pull off my glasses and get turned on every time I make a list in my Palm, hah. And the Venuses of us both are earth signs. And even if I don't get to travel for shit and I'm about as exotic as a dandelion, I've still got the same Sag-ishness. So we'd still probably be hitting it off really well, except for his bitching about my messy house. Course, the ironic thing is that if I wasn't so utterly turned off by all things domestic due to years of family squabbles about such things, and if my family weren't nuts, I probably could have been a domestic goddess. Everyone gets quite weirded out to hear of a Taurus who doesn't love to cook and garden, and yet, there I am with another dead plant on my desk and a fridge full of frozen dinners instead of fresh fruit.

Then we get to the trouble areas: CONJUNCT SATURNS, PEOPLE. Not only does his Saturn also square my moon even more closely than my original aspect does, his sun squares my Saturn exactly and his Saturn squares my Venus exactly. Bad, bad, bad. Parent issues with the moon and sun, and as for the Venus, he'll think I'm too rigid (okay, probably true when I am not flexible on the "let's have a family!" issue) and I'll never tell him I love him. (Doesn't help that I have VsS natally already. I guess I shouldn't have chosen a celebrity who is also gonna go through Saturn Return fairly soon.) Then again, I don't think my not "screaming my love to the sky" (TM Surviving Saturn's Return) is a problem when it seems likely that we'd be friends who found each other attractive, but would end up splitting up if we got into a relationship when his biological clock started screaming and mine stayed asleep. I don't think hopping into a sexual affair when we're both partnership-oriented out the wazoo and can't get into a long-term partnership with each other when that's what we'd want would be a good idea, so I wouldn't drop the L-bomb anyway!

The odd thing about Venus square Saturn, though, is that it's one of those "fated" elements with staying power. Well, all of the Saturn aspects are, apparently. According to this and this, SOME kind of Saturn aspect HAS to be in a chart in order to keep people together, and if there isn't one, they will probably not stay together for long. So we'd be having two fat bad aspects on each other where one ticks the other off, but we'd be stuck like glue together, as friends even if nothing else. I'm not sure if that's good or not! Even more amusing, if he did turn out to be Taurus rising, according to that second link we'd be pretty compatible in the 2nd/8th houses.

I find it kind of interesting that he has all of this partnershippy-must-get-married stuff, and THEN has the Sag moon that wants to party it up. Then again, I have similar urge-to-merge going on in my chart, and god knows I don't play the field. (I guess one has to trump the other.) I usually end up dating someone who lives in another town, or is a workaholic, or has a lot of business trips. This way I get my space enough to not have a problem. Considering that he's in the entertainment industry, if he found a chick willing to deal with him being away for months, that could work for him, I suppose.

If he does have Uranus in the seventh house, that would mean he wants an unusual woman and/or has to have some kind of unusual marriage arrangement that allows for freedom. That'd be a pretty damn big clash to have in one's chart- does he go for the little Virgo earth mom of his dreams, or for a Uranian weirdo who doesn't mind if he's out of town a lot? Not a lot of people are going to combine that well. (I lean towards the second one.)

So I suppose the overall conclusion is what I figured: we'd find each other hot, make great pals, but could never get married because his need for domesticity and my need for non-domesticity wouldn't mesh at all.

It's probably a good thing that we'll never, ever meet. Things would be decidedly wacky (or just plain karmically FRIGHTENING) if we did!

Send to a friend