Saturn Return Can Bite Me

Astrology of Harlan Ellison

nobody@vox.com(fullmoon) — Mon, 28 Sep 2009 14:58:07 -0700

"The one thing I know about love for sure is that it's the only game in town and that you must keep going back to bat again and again. I have no respect for anyone who says they've given up, or that they're not looking or that they're tired. That is to abrogate one's responsibility as a human being." -from A Curmudgeon's Garden of Love

So, kind of in preparation for Elsa's next class, I was looking at my analysis from the previous one, which pretty much reiterates that I am a total bitch and a half when it comes to relationships and I suspect it would take an act of God to get me involved again. I can't help but think that if I was a professional and saw my chart, I'd tell me something like, "Look, you're gonna be miserable without a relationship, but you're also gonna have tons of issues within one, plus making the dude miserable. Considering that you can't win either way, I'd say to do lifelong singledom because at least this way you're not torturing someone else too."

Since I think this way, you can imagine how I find the above quote to be irritating as fuckall.

Now, I happen to own a much-treasured copy of A Curmudgeon's Garden of Love (if you can dig it up in a used bookstore, I HIGHLY recommend it. Any of the Curmudgeon books, for that matter), and it features an interview with Harlan Ellison, who got married four times before finally sticking with wife #5. Now, I don't have my copy in front of me and I can't find the direct quote I'm thinking of online, but he says something along the lines of, "If I, of all people, can finally find lasting love, it could happen to anybody." Well, maybe that's the case. I hear he's...interesting...to deal with in real life. But the interview itself is pretty entertaining to read, what with his worst date ever, how he can't go into details about losing his virginity but it was like a docking maneuver in 2001, etc. And if you read the link above, there's another quote about WHY he's had so many women split on him. But presumably Susan doesn't find him irritating. Go figure.

So I figured I'd check the guy's chart to see how much of a hard nut he is to crack. And he's got the usual suspects of difficulty in there: Mars Saturn square, Moon Saturn square, and Venus Saturn sextile. Venus Uranus loose-ish conjunction in seventh for all those sudden relationships squaring Pluto, and the Moon trines Pluto. UH-OH TEH DRAMA KABOOMBAH comes to mind seeing that. And oh, look, sun conjunct Chiron. So, yeah, me and Harlan Ellison are real goddamned lulus in relationship. That's...fun to know.

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The freedom vs. couplehood debate, yet again

nobody@vox.com(fullmoon) — Mon, 02 Mar 2009 11:03:57 -0800

Elsa attempts a consultation on a really hard problem. Freedom vs. commitment again...

I have quite the history of getting into a relationship, things going well for a while, then I become somewhat bored and eventually become intrigued by someone new. I guess the boredom sort of builds up and then the new interest happens very quickly, catching my partner totally off guard.I used to have problems with cheating - now I just break up really quickly with the first person so I can be with the second w/o technically cheating.I know I have strong tendencies towards interest in the new and different romantically, but the problem is I also find great pleasure in the stability and comfort of having a steady partnership. The in between thing hasn’t worked either - greater distance, not seeing each other as much, just makes me dissatisfied at the lack of intense and regular interaction and wanting to find something more substantial. I seem to want intense depth and yet novelty as well, or something like that. I don’t know if it’s a matter of not meeting someone compatible enough, or if I’d do this no matter what, always wanting something more/different - likely the latter, I think.
On the Venus in Aqu./Uranus front, I agree that I will always have these tendencies for sudden attractions and it can be instead about whether or not to act on them - however, it also can (& does) mean a simultaneous sudden turning off of my feelings towards the current partner. It’s pretty much textbook Venus/Uranus. I don’t know what to do with that at all. It’s like something besides my personal will decides that it’s just time for this relationship to be over…and even if I want otherwise, my feelings are gone. Not my feelings towards them as a friend, but romantic ones.

And she doesn't want to do polyamory at all, which really screws the pooch here, I think. (Really, I have some of the aspects she cites as meaning "I want all the attention!" and "Mine!", she has more Jupiter/Sadge than I do, and I could handle it.) But you can't deal with someone who is absolutely no on the idea, so never mind.

First, the level of freedom you want and need and require is off the charts just with the stellium in Sagittarius alone. The Saturn trine suggests you have the capacity to reign this in but I am not sure this (restriction) is what would make you happiest. Taking responsibility for your Wild Horse-ness is probably a better tack.
So to apply this knowledge you can look at the fact that you will cheat but you won’t tolerate an open relationship where the other person can “cheat” and that’s a vivid manifestation of the inflation right there.
I think you can have both these things to an extent. The problem for you is the word, “extent”. With a chart like this you just don’t want to suffer any restriction or tie down of any kind. In short you want it all which is just not available to any of us for any length of time.
We don’t really know what would happen if you can contain your impulse to split because you have never experimented with this. Franky, I’d say that you have lacked the maturity but the Saturn transit is here to fix that. You’ve been humbled now (by despair) so you are ready to try something new.
I don’t think you will ever get rid of your freedom urges but you can come to realize that acting on them brings you pain. You could compare this to alcoholism or even my love of ice cream. I will always like ice cream but if I eat it, I am going to crash. So what you become here, is the hero in your own story. The person who had a fatal flaw but opted out.

I attempted to post comments, but that seems to be having issues. So here's my thoughts:

(a) She rules out polyamory, but one option would be to find a partner who wants to be monogamous to her, but is okay with her dating others. I know of a few folks in real life who are like this and they are probably hard to find, but it could happen. It sounds like her problem is that she won't share, but if she finds a guy who doesn't want to worry about juggling girlfriends, or wants a happy girlfriend who won't dump him when her attention span goes, or is secure enough to not worry about this stuff too much, he could be guy #1 and then she could rotate in her other guys.

This, however, does not really account for her lack of interest in guy #1 as soon as guy #2 comes about, though. I would not argue with Elsa about trying to stick with guy #1 and not immediately hop to guy #2 for a change and see if she can handle it, but if that doesn't work, maybe she should just...

(b) Accept that she is only going to have short-term partnerships. Jupiter on the descendant means she will have tons and tons of prospects and luck in finding them over the years. Maybe what she needs to do is warn the guys up front that she's only gonna be in the relationship for a short period of time and that's all she can handle. And date guys who feel similarly. Because god knows you won't run out of those people :P This doesn't really account for getting older and wanting to "settle down," but that's probably where "just pick a guy and stick with him and don't leave when your brain has moved on" would come in anyway.

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Venus-Uranus transits

nobody@vox.com(fullmoon) — Thu, 19 Feb 2009 16:31:30 -0800

More here:

Uranus-Venus transits are fun but weird. All the peeps you attract or whom zig into your life seem to be ultra-attractive & individuated but really bats. As an example, even my Celebrity Crush - Joaquin Phoenix - has apparently gone totally apeshit bats. That is the awesome power of this astro-passage. Unbelievable. None of my friends are doing Uranus-Venus transits. So, in the spirit of support, I am offering u the chance to join the Uranus-Venus club. All you have to do to join is have a Venus between 21 and 28 degrees of Pisces, Virgo, Sagittarius or Gemini. Also considered Venus in those degrees of Scorpio or Cancer and Capricorn-Taurus.

Hmmmmm.

Now, I have occasionally been looking at my future transits and discovered that Uranus hits my natal Mercury in the sixth in 2013 (by that point, uh, I'd better find a more interesting job or else this one will explode, right?), and Uranus hits my descendant around my birthday in 2019, and the Venus will follow after that. I figure the latter two will be interesting.

But according to Medusa here, I should be having a Venus/Uranus now, sextiling. Hmmm. Well, so far it's a dull transit there. I have nothing in Pisces/fifth though, so other than having an appreciation for younger men that I haven't had before, I can't say it's had any effect on me. And I don't want to date young 'uns anyway since I consider myself too young to go "cougar" (which is to say, the young 'uns for me are still scary immature). I have this thing about wanting to date people within a year of my own birthdate, which can probably be chalked up to Saturn, since that would set off all my natal issues in synastry and I'm used to that.

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Fun with Venus issues

nobody@vox.com(fullmoon) — Fri, 16 Jan 2009 16:45:38 -0800

I feel sorry for this chick, who has Venus Saturn AND Venus Uranus. I think that's a particularly heinous combination to have to deal with. "MUST HAVE INDEPENDENCE" vs. "MUST COMMIT NOW NOW NOWNOWWWWWWWWW!!!". Ugh!

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Steve Pavlina and his transits

nobody@vox.com(fullmoon) — Wed, 07 Jan 2009 10:15:56 -0800

I off-and-on read this guy's website. I am not into everything he discusses (the diet stuff, eh, no thank you), but sometimes he has some very interesting thoughts. And he is certainly right on the sleep cycle thing, 'cause I've done it.

Anyhoo, he's decided to go polyamorous for the New Year. The Internets are all in an uproar about this, as god knows everyone is whenever someone mentions non-monogamy. Someone commented on his forum that this might be due to a Uranus transit to his Venus. Steve helpfully provided his birth time. I was curious- he always seems to operate in some kind of Uranian experimental phase- I wanted to see what he had.

So: he's Aries with Sag rising/moon. Hm, somewhat of a surprise, but not really. Sag loves the brainy stuff. And Uranus in Libra would explain the relationship experimentation somewhat.

His north node is in Aquarius, so I guess that really fits him to experiment (especially with money, since he posts about that a lot)- it's his life mission to figure that stuff out for humanity.

I do wonder how it will work out for him a bit- the guy has Saturn in the fifth, which might hamper the Sag/Gemini-ness/free lovin' in his chart- but I guess we will see.

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That's a tricksy case.

nobody@vox.com(fullmoon) — Wed, 17 Dec 2008 14:49:31 -0800

"However, there are a few issues you need to work through to get to your goal of love and marriage.

My first impression when I looked at your chart was that you are a person grew up in a overprotective atmosphere. Your Sun in the zodiac sign of Taurus is opposite Saturn, which usually indicates a restrictive upbringing, “for your own good”. It is an out of sign opposition, which weakens the effect, but you did experience a childhood where girls’ behavior was closely monitored, and your brother experienced greater freedom of movement. You were enjoined and praised for being a “good girl”, which I am sure you were. But being a “good girl” also denied you avenues of personal growth. For one thing, despite Pluto running over your Uranus/Venus opposition, which is a cry for personal freedom in your chart, you are still looking for the traditional avenues of personal fulfillment, love and marriage. Perhaps all you’ve gotten out of this transit is a sense that you are “different” from other girls, but nothing can be further from the truth.

An important planet for you is Chiron which sits at the top of your chart, one of four points in a Grand Cross in mutable signs. Chiron talks about a wound that is difficult to heal. It manifests in conditions that cause us emotion pain. A Grand Cross in Mutable signs calls for adaptability in face of changing conditions. One effect of a Grand Cross is that when one point of the Cross is activated, the energy zings around the chart affecting other other parts of your life. For you this effects your health, the health of other people around you, your higher ideals and communications you receive. One would surmise from such a Cross that you are often expected to care for the health of a family member, most likely your mother or another female relative, which is a cause of the restrictions in your life. Your pain is that these restrictions are making it difficult for you to live your own life.

Your Grand Trine does not help you in that it allows you to acquiesce to the demands of others. It also feeds what some have called the Cinderella Complex. Cinderella does everything she is supposed to do, despite hardships, and she is rewarded by magically being allowed to go to ball, being swept away into the arms of Prince Charming and eventually living happily ever after. But life is not a fairy tale, and if we want something to happen, we need to make it happen. You aren’t Cinderella and Prince Charming crept off a long time ago with some of the help.

Both Chiron and Neptune in the sky right now are making long slow transits of your fifth house of romance churning up your romantic desires to be swept away from your life as it is right now. Neptune feeds overly romantic thoughts, and Chiron makes you painfully aware of what you don’t have. You are not seeing the issue clearly, and this you need to work on.

First you need to separate your needs from that of your family. As long as you allow them to do so, they will continue rely on you to be a caretaker. You are in your twenties now and it is well past time to leave the nest. If you have not pursued an education, you should do so. If you have, go back for a master’s or doctorate degree, away from home, anyplace where you can live on your own and experience life without the well intentioned interference of your family. Only until you discover who you really are, what you really need, will you be in full control of your choices, including, who to marry and when to have children."

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Today's Mystic Medusa

nobody@vox.com(fullmoon) — Fri, 31 Oct 2008 13:34:31 -0700

Well, this is cheering, for what it is:

Oh it's such fun how Venus squares BOTH Saturn and Uranus on Monday, sort of helping to personalise the whole Saturn Vs Uranus opposition via our own relationships...
In case it helps to imagine these inner archetypes facing off - Saturn is the Sage & Uranus is the Sacred Clown. Saturn is the Status Quo and Uranus is "the status wot?" iconoclast, genuinely amazed that anyone would even give a f**k. Saturn is your sometimes quite helpful inhibitions. Uranus is audaciously creative. Saturn is the quiet satisfaction of having gotten your taxes done. Uranus is the joy of a sudden hare-brained bolt of brilliance from out of nowhere.
Saturnine relationships are often duos who do well at work together, quiet and stable, getting off on the mutual reliance, sense of safety and shared opinions. Uranian relationships cause lots of w.t.f? moments from friends, if not actual tut-tutting. They're unconventional, growth stimulating & ludicrously good fun.
Saturn is society standards and expectations. Uranus is individuation & following one's own instincts. Obviously, either principle taken to extremes is awful: The juice-less, dry old voice of outmoded judgements. The total whack-job gibbering in the street. Uranian brilliance built on a foundation of homage paid to Saturn is amazing.

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Commitmentphobia with Cameron Diaz

nobody@vox.com(fullmoon) — Fri, 08 Aug 2008 13:54:16 -0700

Venus/Uranus and Venus/Chiron, with a dash of Sun/Mars.

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Uranus and commitment-o-phobia

nobody@vox.com(fullmoon) — Tue, 13 May 2008 08:38:45 -0700

What if you want to marry someone with Uranus in the seventh house? Answer: you'd better want your own space, 'cause they're going to want theirs. And if you both do, then that's all right.

Now, looking at my chart, I didn't have any obvious connections to this...but it's pretty much how I have dated. There was always some reason or other why the guy couldn't be around 24-7 (usually he had to be out of town a lot, or lived out of town, or was a Capricorn). And I liked it. At one point the ex who lived out of town stayed at my place for a month, and I was feeling weirded out by it. Not to mention that I fall for people rarely and when I do it's like lightning struck.

Well, I started reading Astrology Of Intimacy, Sexuality & Relationship. I have attempted to read Noel Tyl before and mostly I just can't read his charts terribly well l (I gave up on reading Vocations entirely, since all he does is talk about other people's charts and not about how to relate the information to anyone else) and had to give up. But in this book, things were more clear, and he really talks about the psychology of things, how upbringing has to do with what you want/need in relationships, etc. I'm not done with it yet, but I'd recommend people getting it.

But anyway, he talks a LOT about the quindecile. A lot a lot a lot, and I was all, "what the hell is that?" I usually ignore anything beyond conjunction/square/opposition/trine/sextile, and occasionally pay attention to the inconjunct. Beyond that it gets freaking confusing, not to mention hard to spell.

But once I got home and looked up what it is, it makes a lot more sense. It's a planetary connection that is just outside the opposition (i.e. close but not quite), BUT it represents obsession and an area of extreme focus. Interesting...

What quindeciles do I have?

Venus quindecile Uranus- 13 deg. difference.
Jupiter quindecile Neptune- 16 deg. difference.
Saturn q midheaven axis, exact at 15 degrees.

So, yeah, I've got Venus and Uranus after all! Not a surprise, I suppose. And, of course, Saturn has to get in on the midheaven action.

I think I may end up writing more on this later....

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